You're listening to,
It's a podcast about V4V. We ask the hard-hitting questions.
We deliver the information. What is helipad?
Um, okay. Um, uh... V4V Roundtable Podcast.
And now, Canada's foremost leading pseudo-intellectual, Jimmy V.
Hello, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Welcome to the V4V Roundtable podcast.
I'm Jimmy V, and I'm joined today by Sir Libre, Sir TJ the Raffle,
and Randy Black. Now we'll start over again.
Sir TJ the Raffle of the Doerfelverse fame. How the heck are you doing, brother?
Hey, guys. Glad to be here.
Sir Libre from Lightning Thrashes is what's new.
What's new? There's a lot that's new. It's been over a year since we've had
an episode, so we've got a lot to catch up on. So, yeah, I'm here.
I thought it was the last week we did this. It seemed like Randy Black from...
Now, did you change the name of your show?
I thought it was the M2H2 Music Show, but...
M2H2 is the abbreviation. Mountain Music Happy Hour. Because I live in West
Virginia, and where West Virginia is, the Mountain State.
So that's where I came up with the name. And I was going mostly with their abbreviation
for a while. But when I changed artwork and stuff, I'm like, you know what?
Let's kick back to the other name, see how it goes. And if people want to still
call it M2H2, more power to them. I just love what I love.
The odds are I'll forget all about it in a matter of a minute.
But that's not, don't take it personally.
So here we are. My plan is already not working.
I'm going to have to, I had some ideas and stuff about what I was going to do.
And I was going to use my phone to do some stuff.
And now I can't because, of course, I'm using my phone to do this stuff.
And so I'm just proving my worth as a podcast host here.
I'm quite impressed with myself so far.
I've managed to use a lot of words and not really say very much at all.
So I'm quite, you know, obviously you combine that with the long white beard
and obviously I'm a trusted source for news and information.
And you can believe everything I say.
So now that I've pissed up my own rope there, I know Kolomona Sir Libre, he brought notes.
So let's unleash Kolomona. What are your notes about, brother?
All right. So first off, I want to mention about what this podcast is all about.
It's all about just discussing the things that are related to value for value.
It's the round table. It's not just the three of us plus a guest.
It's the three of us plus a guest plus the chat room, the troll room,
where we can communicate about anything in the value verse that we're interested in.
But I did want to bring up, since it's been over a year, I have some headlines
that have happened in the value for value word. If you bear with me, I'll just read them off.
And this is what's happened. It's the history in V4V for the last year.
Um, Albie changed the way that their wallets worked and that screwed everything up.
Fountain did step up with their wallets and they joined the nostr team,
which is actually a good thing and a bad thing.
It's a, it's not a bad thing. It's just a good thing, but it's complicated.
Wavlake has made some improvements regarding splits and other things that they
do. Um, but there's still a one walled garden.
You still cannot listen to, uh, Sir Spencer's music on Wavlake.
Steven Bell has revamped Music Side Project and he's now offering a way for
musicians to host super cheap via bunny.net which is really cool,
Steven Bell's also working on the split box, which is going to be the future
of wallets, for better or for worse, in my opinion, worse, but whatever,
that'll allow V4V apps in the nostr world to be able to do proper splits.
It's something he's working on.
Bitcoin hits $100,000 and Boostagram virtually drop coming in.
They just went away. I don't know why.
Uh live events like the satellite skirmish live events
like the satellite skirmish and Boostagram Ball bringing a ton
of satoshis for the for the artists but sadly
not enough to pay for the venue so that's pretty much my year in review of value
for value I don't know I probably left a lot of things out there but that's
what I could come up with on the wait wait wait but did you build a node oh
but did I build a node yes I did let's go I built a node.
Yeah well you know what that is you know what that is when you build a node
right you know what everyone says,
it's a step in the right direction after all after all it's a step in the right
direction it's a step in the right direction after all.
I'd say it's a step in the right direction as a podcaster but
what about you randy did you build a node um I've
had a node you've had a node it's your way ahead of us news
yeah I've read it I've read a little b-link mini pc with umbral
on it to get my node going there we go see and I know someone that had surgery
for nodes on their vocal cords oh but yeah what you mean jimmy you're You're
probably going to build a node here eventually once you get your studio live.
Yeah, I'm going to do it with my bare hands.
No, I'm going to do it all by myself with my bare hands.
I just got to get him to buy the thing and then I'm gonna go down and cut down the node trees.
Tomorrow no the plan is for me to build a node for jimmy he's
just got to uh purchase it and then uh I will
I will build the node and host it for him so he can
be sovereign well and like you
said since we did uh gathered last time l lb get lb or get all b whatever you
call it sort of changed in a sense it went away in a sense it's a different
kind of tool and so can I interrupt for a sec just just that well I mean my
train of thought is completely gone so yeah you please,
I'm sorry but I'm trying to sort something out you're good and I can't and you
know me yeah I apologize could you please email me a link to the troll room
so I could go on my computer and look in the troll. Absolutely.
Thank you. I'm sorry I interrupted you. I know I'm a dick.
Go to roundtable v4vroundtable.com. There's a post there that describes exactly what you need to do.
It's all good. You can't just send me a link for crying out loud.
Trollroom.io Trollroom.io Thanks.
All I was going to say It's only getting clear since he's done this, guys. Come on.
All I was going to say is one of the majors. Actually, I did it on Friday.
Sorry, Jimmy. Oh, I remember this part.
Well, the big change has been, I want to know what you guys think.
Do artists, do artists, hey, easy, don't talk to yourself. You can just think in your head, Jimmy.
Do artists need to build a node or what are their options?
And what are your opinions on that randy I'm I'm
all about being sovereign man I think I'm still working
on my brother who's putting music out in the value verse my cousin who's putting
stuff out like guys we need to build you a node we need to set you up so that
even though you're posting on a wave lake and it's not my favorite place either
you can automatically have all those sats from wave lake go right to your node
and then you have full control um I'm I'm all for it I think it's the best bet.
The problem is we have a lot of non-technical people who are not going to understand
it. We're going to have to actually step up and do it for people.
Do it for people or just keep repeating ourselves and giving people little steps in the right direction.
Cause for the longest time I didn't build a node, you know, I just,
I just used get all be like, that was what everyone was doing. That's where I started.
Yeah. Everyone was doing that. It was really simple, easy.
And, um, and you know, after, uh, all be just was like, Hey,
we're going to stop this. And I had to update, you know, tons of feeds.
Um, but building it, what it was, I'll be apocalypse. Thank you. That's what it was.
And uh but it was really not I
chad f actually gave me like very simple steps to
put a node together now if you're a listener and you
just want to be able to interact and Boostagram it might not be the most
uh you know straightforward thing to do for
that even though I still think it's really cool thing to do but
like you guys said not you know a lot of people are going to do that so
it's kind of a an area that we're kind of like we're all
kind of stuck in like what do we do how do we get people you want
we all want interaction right we all want to if we're
bringing value our hope is that we receive some
kind of value back and usually in the form of interaction it's
not even like we're not doing this for money particularly I mean money's great
but um it's that the connection from people who are getting value that's that
is the value oh it's exactly what I just said in my last episode I said I'm
not doing this show for me this isn't about you sending sats to me through.
Streaming or through Boostagrams. It's about getting this music out there and you
supporting those artists.
Yeah. I do get 5% the way I've got my show set up, but 5% is nothing.
I mean, I'm, it's not, it doesn't, it doesn't even come close to covering any
costs I might have for me.
This is about helping other people to get their stuff out there.
Yeah. Okay. So my thoughts on, uh, should you have a node? Should you build a node or not?
I believe that the average everyday Joe doesn't necessarily need a note.
They can use a custodial wallet like the paid for Albie or they can use fountain,
which is what I'm recommending right now because it seems to be the only option
out there. Doesn't true fans also offer that?
Yeah. I always forget about them because I just forget about true fans.
If you, if you, if you talk to Sam Sethi, those are not sats.
Those are true fans tokens.
They're true fans tokens. Yeah. And so I do have a send them anywhere else.
I have an issue with that. You can't receive them on that wallet and take them somewhere else.
Oh, so my thoughts are, hang on, let me finish this thought real fast.
My thoughts are that if you are a podcaster or a musician, it'll behoove you
to have a wallet or to have your own node.
Because you're going to be receiving a lot of satoshis or a lot of stupid streams.
Not stupid streams, but a lot of streams, a lot of sats coming in.
And it's better for you to have control over that as a podcaster or a musician.
But I get it. Like in the beginning, you don't know what you're doing. So do it like how TJ did.
He didn't set up his note until later, until after he got his feet wet.
You don't have to do it immediately.
Because it is – it's not –.
It's not terribly difficult, but it takes time and it takes a lot of understanding
and the understanding does not come easily.
And patience. Now let's, let's not forget the other thing with building a node.
It opens up a whole world of doing things live. And then do I say it? The helipad.
Helipad. That's what I'm. Yeah, absolutely.
But that's, that's a huge thing. I will hear helipad.
Yeah. I love my helipad um before I ever
started a note or anything and I was just following podcasts
man I'm not gonna lie like I loved hearing when
I sent a Boostagram and I heard uh on
the on the podcast once you go ding and I'm like oh that was me and
then later on it's like yeah here's what you know tj said and
usually something really dumb but yeah it's all
fun yeah eric pp we got to thank him uh
dave jones wrote helipad and then eric pp is
now maintaining it so if it wasn't for him uh maintaining
helipad we would be in the dark so what I'll be one let's explain
helipad who wants to do that I I feel
like libre or randy would be good with that it helipad is
a a lightning node polar is what we would call it so what it's doing is it's
looking for transactions um it's looking for transactions coming in or going
out from your lightning node and if those have a t currently a tlv record uh
that's going to change in the future once we get this stuff figured out,
It takes that data and then puts it in a form where you can read it.
So you can see who sent it. You can see what app they sent it from.
You can see the amount of Satoshis they sent in the original amount.
It'll show you the percentage that you got on the split if you have splits set up.
And if they have sent a message, the message will appear there. It's just awesome.
Yeah. And so to say that even simpler, just kind of repeat you,
but in a really simple way, I have a browser window open.
It's connected to my node. I have helipad open and I can see if someone sends
a Boostagram right now or if they sent them in the past, there's just a list and I can see them.
So if you hear that pew pew or whatever sound people have programmed
and that is a really fun way to interact with
people um using the lightning network which
is bitcoin um that's kind of how
I understand it and it's cool to hear how randy put it because
his was way more technical and I sort of like I know what you're saying but
it was also a little bit still like you gotta remember I work in it so you gotta
remember that yeah you were like oh you knew exactly like you said it directly
and I'm certainly don't yeah well it's basically a Boostagram gram reader that's
pretty much it There you go. The Boostagram reader allows you to read your
Boostagram. It's even in its name.
It is a Boostagram tracker, is what they call it.
So it allows you to read your Boostagrams. It seems to me like it would be very,
very beneficial as an accounting tool, as a statistical tool.
See, I'll tell you what. I got a lot of Jimmy V music out there and a lot of
other music that we're hosting, and I can't keep tracking nothing.
And I have no, like, it's almost impossible to figure out who's Boostagramming what.
And so absolutely, I'm going to pony up the money and Sir Libre is going to build a node for me.
And then hopefully I can learn how to use that helipad thing and get that sorted out.
But there's still, like.
Um, Sir Libre's year in review of the headlines, they're kind of,
I would encapsulate that as the wheels kind of fell off.
Things were rolling along really good. And then the wheels kind of fell off
and, um, people smarter than me are trying to put the wheels back on and I'm
sure they'll get it figured out.
There's a lot of people have a lot of interest, um, in making this work.
And so you know we kind of have to count on them smart people to figure it out but,
this like it was quite a blow to have the Albie thing collapse on us that was
quite a blow not like Albie was that simple to deal with but it certainly kicked me in the pants,
Sir Libre yeah you want to give a Oh, never mind.
Somebody who wants to yap off the most right now, because I don't really.
Well, go ahead, Randy. Looking at everything we've got going on,
we have a decent number of people who have bought in,
people to help build the foundation for this, to make this work,
to, for lack of a better term, and I'm coming from the very heavily involved
in church and everything.
To evangelize what we have.
We need to do that more because we have very, very strong barriers to adoption by the listeners.
Agreed. I mean, we have technical hurdles that are keeping them from doing it
because we have, you know, out of all the podcast apps out there,
we have limited apps to support doing value for value.
You know, we have, you know, the whole idea of wallets set up.
It's complex. It's hard. It's confusing. People don't understand it.
You know, we've got people who are hesitant to do anything because there's concerns
over transaction fees and what Bitcoin means and how they're going to handle all this stuff.
You know, we've got psychological barriers people have to deal with.
You know, look at how long we've had the mindset that podcasts are all free.
And they are. I mean, everything we're doing, we put out there for free.
Right. Some people don't want to put the support in. They're expecting ads to be inserted.
They're expecting this content to be added in there to help the podcaster earn,
not provide that support directly for themselves.
You know, the skepticism again with Bitcoin. The, you know, we look at some
of these agencies and things out there that have these paywalls,
these subscription models, and listeners don't necessarily,
you know, with what we do, don't necessarily get immediate feedback for that.
They don't see consequences for their actions in that if they provide us support
for us, you know, we've got to make sure we're calling it out.
We're telling them about it.
You know, and the biggest thing we need to do is we need to make people aware of what we have.
I talk to people every single day in my job about what I do in podcasting, what value for value is.
And I give them success stories of value for value. Heck, no agenda.
17 plus years that Adam Curry, John C.
Dvorak have made a living to not get rich, but to take care of their families,
to take care of themselves personally over what they do, all value for value.
And there's other podcasts that do the same thing. So we've got to work on breaking
down those barriers for our listeners to get them on board.
If we can do that, we can change the world.
I would have to agree with that.
Go ahead, Jimmy. Yeah, me too.
Well, listeners and audience, these words kind of fly around, but in my view,
the reality is the vast majority of
the listeners of the audience of V4V
Music are actually participants in
the whole the whole process and there's
not really any connection to the
world outside of the v4v music
world and there's really not a great way to bring people into this world who
are complete you know what are the what do the kids say normies um so I'm not
sure exactly like I have some ideas,
but we're working on some stuff.
But until that kind of comes together, I don't really care to discuss it too much.
But Sir Libre, how are we going to bring people in here? What are we going to do?
We need audience. There's plenty of really good music to listen to,
and now we've got to go and expose the normies, right?
Well, okay, so there's a big problem with this is that I, of course,
that's something that needs to be done.
But it's not very simple for a brand new listener to jump right in.
There's a lot of hurdles and Randy elucidated a lot of those as well.
In my opinion, we need something like a Spotify for value for value.
We don't have that yet. The closest thing that we have is Ellen Beetz,
which is great, but it's not the passion project of Steven Bell.
He's more interested in other things. We need somebody with some good coding
skills to help me to create the Spotify for the Value for Value world.
Fountain is close, but Fountain is way, way, way too busy, in my opinion.
I like Fountain a lot. It's a great app, but it's way too busy,
and it's not a music app. It's not focused on music.
Wave Lake probably has an amazing app, but I don't ever use it because it's
a one-way walled garden.
And so that's a problem for me. What we need is an all-encompassing app that
people can easily use that has some easy way of having a wallet attached to it.
I am not at all interested in doing what Fountain does by providing wallets.
I am definitely not interested in doing that at all.
I don't think anybody should. You should find your own wallets.
But all these puzzle pieces that need to come together haven't come together yet,
I've introduced a lot of people to LMBeats and many people seem really interested
in it but I guarantee you damn near none of them have ever bothered to connect
a wallet or send any value back it's just that's just the mindset that people
have and I don't know how to overcome that,
I mean on my other podcast my Bible podcast I
have never received anything value for value oh that's
my fault I should I listen to that podcast I love it that's my fault salty I
should be sending you value salty says plenty of wallets none of them work with
the v4v enabled apps though yeah not yet not yet and well I have something to
say about the app go ahead jim.
Okay. I have something to say about the apps. The apps are podcast apps.
That's what I have to say. Like there is no, and Sir Libre said this,
and there is no easy way to just go into this world and consume music. We're working on it.
Sir Libre is trying to do it. I'm trying to help. We're trying to get this thing
built up so that Joe or Susie Normal can just push play and listen to great music.
That's the objective. There's plenty of great music to listen to.
Now we kind of got to get a really easy place to access it. We're working on it.
We're probably not the only ones working on it. I hope not anyways.
But I'm also trying to pump
up the social media world and and
so that when we have a what I think
of as a doorway a big flashy doorway with
lights and buzzers and stuff and then Joe
and Susie Average can wander in and listen to some
great music and maybe we can eat in
there and have and come back but this is
uh it's this is you know
running with scissors blah blah blah this is all brand new this this is we haven't
even opened the gate yet get out of the gate yet like this is all just the initial
construction it's I've been here for a little over a year now and,
And we're working on it. Stuff's happening.
Sir TJ, tell us something you know.
Yeah, well, this, like you said, it's a combined effort. And really what's happening
right now is the artists and the developers are both like, we just got to kind of keep digging in.
Like my goal lately, like I was pretty discouraged about Value for Value,
I don't know, a few months ago.
It was right before, you can probably see a big gap in our episodes where we
were just, life got busy on top of that.
And then plus it felt like it felt kind of
like meaningless like we're just talking in the wind which part of
me doesn't mind I like just you know even just this I just
was like hey I love v4v podcast music all
this if no one's listening and we're just talking about it I enjoy talking about
it so it's it's all good for me but well but we all gotta the artists we gotta
keep like like I just made a note when you when we were talking like we us creators
need to keep creating and honing and creating great content.
And then the developers need to keep trying to help make it easier for all the
way it works and all the apps.
And it's not necessarily hard in the apps. Guru works great.
Fountain works good at what it's, you know, all these apps, Podverse,
they're working well, but there's lots of improvement, especially when we get
into this new area of music, which to us doesn't like feel new.
It's like, I've been doing this for a year and a half and it feels like nothing's going
on but in the grand scheme of technology and everything it is new so I just
got to chill out some of us got you know relax and I got to tell myself that
all the time because I get I I get very like hyped up a lot I'm like oh let's
go you know and then when there's like seems like there's nothing going on and
it's crickets and whatever he's like,
why am I even doing this why am I even here yeah so but we're also there's there's there's.
There's a lot of love for podcast guru in the troll room right now. I'm noticing that.
And I got to admit that I haven't spent a lot of time on podcast guru,
but, uh, Oh, you need to try guru.
It's probably the most stable. There says something about.
Sorry. Oh, I just said guru is the fastest, most stable, uh,
podcast app on my phone and I have Android, so it might be different for other people, but yeah.
I haven't used it very much, I have to admit, but Father Dorf says something
about music playing continuously.
And now.
Yeah, it's a really good app.
I actually messaged the Guru team last week, and they got right back to me with some ideas.
And I'm excited for the development with all of these apps.
And they all have their own, you know, focuses and goals. But they all also
are combined with the content of podcasters and value for value music. So we're all like.
They're all starting to become their own niche app. Like the nostr Bros are
all going to be on Fountain because it's all integrated.
People who are hosting their own wallets are going to go to,
you know, if they're connected through Albie, they're going to go to Podcast
Guru. They're going to go to Podverse.
They're going to connect in that way. so we've got developments there
to meet the needs of the listeners and meet
the needs of the podcasters we just gotta make people know
about it yep and that's why I just want to keep trying
to make uh fun episodes cool music and then just keep spreading the word and
and um it's it's pretty slow going but I think as we figure out especially like
you were saying jimmy and salivate we've uh we figure out an app for music that is really,
you know, um, um,
Ellen Beetz is the best thing we got going, and I'm so thankful for it.
And if I told Steven B, we had him in the Dwarfiverse a few weeks ago,
I was like, man, I wish I could just pay you, because I know it's not your favorite thing.
You just pay you, though, to make, like, just work a ton on it.
He could do it. He could totally do it.
And the stuff he's done is just amazing. Yeah, it's incredible.
Split Kid is awesome. Sovereignty is amazing.
He's all in. He's all in on what we're doing. Absolutely. And he's not really
a podcaster, you know, he's, he's just a guy who loves the medium.
He loves the stuff and he wants to be involved in help.
Yeah. And he loves the stuff we need value for value.
He loves that aspect of it, that these aren't, it's not some,
you know, corporate thing of people just trying to get, get,
uh, you know, make it big or get big money going.
I mean, it's, it's for the love of, of, of the art of whatever that is,
whether it's a podcast or music
or technology. We're not all the Kelsey brothers or Joe Rogan. Exactly.
So that's something. So this V4V concept is, you know, I got to be honest,
that's what really drew me into this in the first place.
I'm really big on the idea of reciprocal relationships.
I think human beings have an evolutionary propensity
to cooperate you know the purpose of survival and that sort of thing so I think
that if it's applied properly that it'll work as a system.
I'd,
sometimes gets a little distracting to
get buried in the weeds of exactly the mechanics of
how it gets done but what it comes down
to is the basic reciprocal relationship
type dynamic where somebody provides a
value and in this case I'm really focused on music as as the value proposition
and if there's people listening to it and those people are enjoying it,
they're getting value from it,
then a certain number of them will return value.
And I mean, if you want evidence of this, all you have to look at is Taylor Swift.
Even though it's a super ultra commercial exchange through standard practices and logistics.
People are buying her stuff because they love her.
And that's value for value. So if you get a bunch of people who love Dorfels music,
and if they buy Dorfels t-shirts and Dorfels coffee mugs and Boostagram Dorfels songs
and share Dorfels songs.
Then...
You know, then maybe, uh, maybe a doorful could buy a cheeseburger.
Yes. Yes. I love cheeseburgers. Or a podcaster like, like radio guys could always earn a living.
Um, maybe someday a music show podcaster could actually like,
just as his job, focus on V4V music and put together an amazing show for the audience.
You'd probably get a pretty good show like d4b has a lot of potential is what I'm saying,
yeah and and like the way
music is consumed now with uh for
you know versus how it used to be I used to make hundreds
of cds and we would go sell you know I
think we'd buy them for like a buck and then we'd sell them for 10 maybe
two for 20 you know something so we were making like nine bucks a
cd now we I'm willing to just give like
let people stream my music for free but
I'm always going to try to create a a relationship with that listener as in
like hey we're just putting it here for you like if you get any value let us
know with some value in return make them want to give you something back give
them something that's amazing and they will want to give you something back.
Well, a certain percentage of the population will want to give you something
back. The fact of the matter is a certain percentage of the population won't give you nothing.
No matter what. If you're the only song they listen to for the rest of their
life, then they won't even give you a nickel.
And that's a large percentage of the population.
You have to accept that as being real. but a small group will endeavor to support
the artists that they love.
And, and that's what I'm looking for.
I was saying like Sir Leroy, not donating, not, not sending one Boostagram
to the Bible bites podcast, which I really like a lot, by the way,
Bible bites, B I Bible, B Y T E S is how you, how you spell it.
It's a great podcast. Bible-bites.com.
Bible-bites.com. It's, it's actually pretty awesome, but yeah, you're right.
And so another thing regarding this value for value thing is that if you don't
put out a quality product, you're not going to get any return. That's just how it is.
The No Agenda show is the flagship for value for value. It's the example that we all use.
And in reality, they're an anomaly.
Like, they're the only ones really making any money on value for value.
There's very few people that are doing it. uh jimmy was telling
me that the launch apparently a new podcast that's come
out here recently they got like 12 episodes um apparently they're
doing well with v4v but there aren't very
many examples my show uh lightning
thrashes has pretty decent numbers
according to my op3 stats and over the
course of 77 episodes I think is what
I have out now 78 forget I've I have brought in a pittance I I'm in the black
or the I'm sorry I'm in the red I don't make I spend more money on my show than
I bring in in the value satoshis even with the increase from bitcoin going to
like a hundred thousand dollars or wherever it is now uh so.
The it's irritating that because
I know it works I see it work look at
no agenda and you know what maybe the difference is they
don't focus on bitcoin notice that no agenda
never ever shills bitcoin at all because john dvork does not want anything to
do with it he's you know avoids it like the plague but there they make I don't
know hundreds of thousands of dollars a year like if You counted up how many
nights happening on every episode? They do well.
They do well. Yeah. They do well. Well, and so you've got to also look at it.
They're making at least 10 bucks a month.
Yeah. At least. At least 10 bucks a month. They may get value sent in on an
episode from, you know, 15 people out of, you know, 90 some thousand people
who've downloaded and listened.
So, you know, it's still that whole very, very small members of your audience
are going to do it. Oh, I agree. I agree.
The fact of the matter is...
Sorry, Jimmy. Go ahead. The fact is that the value-for-value model works,
and the proof is in the no agenda pudding. It works.
But I also think that it's pertinent to notice that they're not focused on the
Lightning Network and Bitcoin.
Yeah, I think Adam would love it if this stuff would all come together and grow
big, But they don't focus on it, and they're not relying on it.
And if the whole lightning thing went away, I'm not sure that their numbers
would be drastically reduced.
They seem to do most of their value seems to come through traditional means.
But they also are a unicorn. And like, these guys have been, they're both really,
really skilled presenters and they've chosen a very, like a very relatable, um, theme.
And, and like, I'll tell you what, when I started listening to no agenda,
it was all about confirmation bias for me. Like they honestly didn't tell me a lot.
I didn't know, but I, they just confirmed that I knew it.
Like I said it to a lot of myself, a lot listening to what they were doing. I knew it. I knew it.
And so do a lot of other people and they resonate and they do a really fricking good product.
Like they're really good at it. And they have a lot of people working behind
the scenes providing other value to help them grow and grow and grow and have
this enormous audience.
And we can look at them as a unicorn or we could just look at them as proof this shit works.
What do you think? Okay, so why should I put my music out value for value?
You know, like, that's a good question. Let's just, like, I want to see what
everyone says about that. Go ahead, Libre.
Well, I think that you don't have very much choice in the matter,
because you've already put your music out in every other platform and have received a pittance.
And if I were to guess, you have probably received a reasonable,
well not reasonable but a lot more in return in the value for value in the value
versus in the two I think that you have probably received more so that's something
that is good and it points to,
it points to something that needs to be grown I guess I don't know but I you
just don't have a choice like are you going to compete with the taylor swift
of the world like can you no you What do you think, Randy?
Taylor Swift can't even compete with the Taylor Swifts of this world. She can't even do it.
Why should people consider... These things are...
They are? Sorry, I interrupted you. We got to sort that. We have to figure this part of that out.
It's really hard to figure out when to get up and when to talk.
And then there's lots of two guys talking at once, which is,
unless it's a hockey podcast.
That's how round tables are supposed to be. Yeah, it's okay.
You got to remember, you're in Canada. Well, I haven't called you any names yet at all.
But I could if you wanted. So, yeah.
And now I've completely derailed conversation. No, you're fine, Jimmy.
I'm just trying to think of like if we're, because I'm telling people about
how we do put our music out in this value way.
But I'm wondering, everyone might kind of spit it out in a different way,
and I'm trying to get different ideas for that. So what would you take?
I want to hear the answers to your... Okay, cool.
Rephrase this question. Start over. We'll go around. We'll start with Sir Libre,
then go to Randy, then go to TJ.
I have anecdotal evidence on this. I already gave my opinion. Randy, what say you?
Okay. anecdotal audience to show you something wait wait wait wait wait wait
stop oh come on I didn't hear yeah thank you I didn't hear your opinion sir
libre why should someone post their music,
that's the question okay yes because they don't really have another choice I
mean the other options that are available to them are unrealistic and out of
reach there are too many fingers in the pie there are too many places where the vast,
artist and good good.
Hey, Randy, you go. Why should someone post their music?
Suzanne Santo. Suzanne Santo has put one song out. I just dropped the stream.
Anyway, sorry. Go ahead, Randy. Suzanne Santo has put one song out.
One. And that one song has made her more money in six months than she's made
on Spotify in five years.
Yeah. she had a she had one track on spotify
and she's well known like she got
32 000 plays of a track on spotify
and made five dollars she told
me about she talks about it on my show yeah it's it's crazy the the amount of
money they make from spotify and from apple is nothing and in six months and
she's still yeah well I can't at the top of those parts we have okay but all
my friends six months that she's made in five years.
All my family, all my friends have Spotify. How am I going to listen to your music?
Why should I, like, what would you tell someone? I don't have that.
What app would you send them to?
No, none right now. That's my whole point. We don't have a good app. I wish we did.
We need to build one. I wish so. We will soon.
We'll have something soon. I do have an answer. I feel confident that soon there
will be something that will work.
I would send people a long time I would
send people to my website because that at
least that at least it's while
I don't love how my dad pointed this out to
me the other day um the widget I'm using which I love from podverse but it's
not made for music it won't continue to play down the the feed of songs like
you have to manually hit play on each song and if you're playing two feeds you
get two songs but it does at least get them if they play a little bit of it.
Hopefully they'll hear the quality of the music and maybe stick around.
But the smoother we can get things working with our website,
which everything on my website is connecting and pointing to the 2.0 apps.
So the more polished the 2.0 apps can get with working with people's websites
and vice versa, just the connectivity of it, I think just the better the experience
is going to keep getting. What is your website again?
Dorfulverse.com D-O-E-R How do you spell Dorful? D-O-E-R F as in Frank E-L,
Just turn that camera a little bit and show people the wall.
Come on. And you know what?
On the value for value note. We're not streaming video.
On the value for value note, I'm pretty much decided we're going to start streaming
more, like live streaming on YouTube with video.
I want to figure out, and this is just a matter of time because,
you know, family, life, and work. I want video options. It's optional in the 2.0 apps too.
I don't watch a lot of video. I'll put an earbud in and be doing stuff.
But I know some people especially if we get
the instruments out and they're playing live in the studio would appreciate
being able to have the video up and would even like it
even more to be in you know guru or pod version be
able to Boostagram um so we're in testing
in testing I live streamed a video version of my show heck
yeah and we're going to be getting doing that but I'm also going
to be open to the youtubes and and that's where value
for value you you don't just have to send value if
you're receiving any through 2.0 apps and figure out the bitcoin thing it's
on us creators to send people to hey here's our website here's all these different
ways we we would appreciate any kind of value it's not just hey get a bitcoin
wallet build a node and send us bitcoin you know I have I have a I have a well
I'll tell you what I'll get it on my site.
I love the bitcoin way it's super fun it's super cool and I hope people keep working on it go ahead,
The V4V music does not integrate well with standard social media.
Being a very active TikToker and YouTuber, I can tell you that posting music
that is not part of their current licensing agreement creates enormous headaches.
And I had to jump through hoops
to to be allowed to post my own music
on these sites it's so
v4v music doesn't integrate well
with this because of the licensing agreements and whatnot
um so we're kind
of between a bit of a rock and a hard place
because a great way to bring people in
would be to use standard social media and get
their attention but you can't really use the
music to do that it's very difficult it's it's a difficult scenario but that's
why I say we need big flashy doorways to bring people to and we're working on
it we'll get it and they're like I'm hoping that.
Like, it's really weird because decentralization is a major theme amongst the V4V music thing.
Be me music decentralization and
I I get
it but I also understand the
reality of the masses is that if
there isn't a centralized location to go to and get what you want they won't
get the masses like you won't get the general audience out there until you have
some sort of centralized location for them to go to.
And discover this stuff like it's
hard to we all know this like
how do you listen how do I listen to your
song oh well you got to get this podcast app or you could go here or go there
it's not like you could just do it on your spotify you know that everyone has
spotify what I try to sell people So on the other side, you're really simple.
Yeah. Yeah. What you're saying is into like not combat, but to try to come back
to that is, well, on Spotify, you have to go sign up and pay monthly to pull
any song up you want on demand.
Same with Apple music and Amazon. I'm pretty sure.
So I'm, I just tell people, Hey, yeah. And everyone does it.
And they do it. But I, I, I'm trying to make it, Hey, you don't have to pay anything.
You can go pull up all my album on Ellen beats or on
podcast crew on fountain anywhere and play all
as many times as you want it whatever song you want as
million times as you want and a lot of these apps have playlists and
and you can do that and and I mean a lot
of people are still like at work I I talk
about at work and it's really going slow getting anyone at work to try it but
but that's to try to be like combat where you're saying a little jimmy is like
hey you know you have to pay for that this is this like value for value like
and you can just play it and there won't be ads if you have the free thing you
don't you know um but Let's not even get into,
well, if I play a song like that, it doesn't keep playing music that I like.
I have to, you know, the whole radio idea, playlist idea.
The whole thing is like, yes, people got to pay to get onto Spotify. The point is they do.
And Salty says they pay. Because there's a centralized place for them to go
and get what they want. So they pay for it. Ten bucks a month. They do it.
Salty thinks they pay. They pay because they want to create playlists.
Which is yeah well playlists is uh the foundation is
wrong and further up
in the chat hey jimmy did you see that
in the troll room we father dorf said uh adam points out that artists don't
need huge numbers to have success and I agree from experience as a family band
organic growth was natural because we were social in the real world social media
is the new world of real world now Now, in podcasting,
we need to have to touch each person's social media in an organic yet creative way.
I agree with that. Now, so what my thoughts on that is that's what Fountain
is trying to accomplish using the nostr integration to try to get more.
That was funny. That was an inside joke right there. Now, I have nothing against
nostr, to be honest with you, but that's what they're trying to do.
I want to push back a little bit against Father Dorfell, with all due respect,
is that you do need huge numbers.
Adam's saying that you don't need huge numbers is disingenuous.
Everything that he's been successful at has had enormous numbers.
So he doesn't have any experience of trying to do anything without big numbers.
Ever since he was a teenager, he's had a following. you.
Know um so to say that you
can be successful without huge numbers it's not
it's not disingenuous but it's it's difficult it's it's
almost disingenuous um yeah you
have to really hard to get those okay you need
a thousand true fans you need a thousand true fans is what
you need yep well I think
it depends on who you are and what you do as
to how many people you need to support you
and what do you need like yeah um I
have I personally have been making music for
35 years I've been recording um what
I think are professional quality music tracks for
a variety of different things and I've
never earned a living at it except for extremely short
periods of time when I'd get a lot of action and get
a lot of gigs in a short period of time and I could earn a
living for six months and then it all it
became a part it's always been a part-time thing at
best um now I
know lots of recording artists who support themselves
through traditional means and I know a lot more musicians who don't do original
music that support themselves But the reality is you need significant numbers of people who are true.
Actual dedicated fans for an artist to play.
Break even even like I spent
tons of money putting my music
together and putting it out for the public and and I don't get you know I don't
get any money for it and and I get a few thousand views at most and nobody really
like I know there's a handful of people who really like it and they're around for everything I do,
but for the most part, I just fall into the weeds.
And I don't know if that's because I'm not good enough or just that's how it
works, because I know lots of people you never heard of.
So numbers matter. And I'm interested in joining a community where we're trying
to build a space where we can gain numbers.
Our own way one of
the things that was most appealing um when I started learning about
the uh Boostagram and how you
know an artist could create a wallet attach their songs to
that wallet and people the listeners and the apps could
directly support that artist I was like could you imagine the how the power
of like the people if the people used this technology that would like the artists
would be truly be the favorites literally decided by the people that are willing
to do that if they learned how to do that.
So I wonder if we need to keep trying to remind people, hey.
This new way, while it's still it's extremely new, but
it's it's changing the way instead of
it just being pushed out to you by the big
money labels and Spotify and Apple and people who
are kind of in charge of all that like you have the power to
support you know the artists that
are choosing to put their music out in this way
versus the other way I mean that's just a whole other game
it's a whole other world than than this way and like
I just had this vision of people like my buddy Ryan Fonda
I when he put his some songs on on wait he used
wave lake but I still Boostagram the heck out of his songs
because I loved his song so much I had already listened to a
multiple of his songs like a thousand times and
finally I just started and sent him a few cents here and
there like I couldn't you know afford to send him a hundred dollars every time I
listen to the song or or anything but it just
you know that stuff over time I was like imagine like you
know a thousand true fans a hundred people doing that with
your song you know just every now and then a penny or two like
this guy's like I'm listening to your song I freaking love it here this
isn't hurt this isn't gonna you know uh take
food out of my kids mouths or from you know away from whatever they
need money for you know bills and all that but anyways hey look father dorf
is uh dropping all kinds of wisdom cookies here in the troll room um and he
brings up something that's really interesting so he's talking about um.
Oh, live music is a spiritual experience.
Okay. And that just sunk right in as soon as I read that, because that's a reality.
Speaking as a performing musician, and I'm sure you would concur,
TJ, that there is something about playing in a room full of people who are engaged.
Like you're playing with people and you are all connected. And then there's
a room full of people paying attention to what you're doing and they all become connected.
And there's really, it's very difficult to create that connection outside of that room.
Like a really good record can almost get there. You'll listen to a record over
and over again, but it's still the connection would be much deeper in a live
performance scenario in the same room.
And this is, I think, one of the difficulties is those true spiritual connections
happening through performances are people are kind of craving it.
What do you think, Randall?
I mean yeah there's there's so much that you know comes from experiencing these things you know,
I'm not a musician in my and right now in my life I used to perform when I was
in high school I was in the band and did stuff and there's nothing better than
you perform for those people that want to be there who want to see what you're
doing and they give you that recognition for it You know,
my brother has struggled, uh, in his, you know,
his side hustle to be a musician throughout the whole time that we've been adults.
Um, he's never made any, any, anything, uh, worthwhile out of it,
uh, you know, financially, but he's done some decent music and he's put some decent music out there.
And there's people who've reached out and said, Hey man, I like this.
This is really good. So I know, you know, that feeling he gets from it.
You know, I can, I can, you know, look at people like, you know,
like I said, Suzanne Santo, Abel James.
That I've talked to who say that this has given them a spark again to make them
think, hey, this could change things.
This could make what I'm doing be more meaningful. It can have more value to
me because I'm giving more value to these people.
Well, you're absolutely right. This really truly is revolutionary.
It's just that not enough people understand or see how revolutionary it truly is.
If you go to deathmetal.org and click the interviews button,
there's an interview that I did.
It was with a completely racist guy, but it doesn't matter.
The interview was good and in there I have numbers that talk about how much
money ASCAP and BMI have brought in and I didn't even bring in CSEC this is
ASCAP and BMI it's something like in the billions of dollars and what we're
doing in the value for value universe is that we're completely.
Disintermediating them we're freeing up the potential of putting those kinds
of dollars into the artist's pocket and that's it is revolutionary And I don't
know why it's not taking off like fire.
Like, you know, I don't know why the average person doesn't go,
oh my goodness, really? I can support my favorite artist directly.
You know, and when I send him a thousand Satoshis, which is,
you know, when Bitcoin was a hundred bucks, that was a dollar.
And when I send him a dollar, he's going to get, you know, 95 cents of that dollar.
That's pretty awesome. Whereas now, if I buy music for a dollar, the artist gets what?
A fraction of a penny? What is it? I don't even know. If you have a 99 cent
song on Apple, what do you get?
I don't know I'm sure it's not that's exactly
what you're saying sir libre is exactly like
I'm like oh my gosh like when I first this all
these light bulbs came on like dude if there's this band
that I loved and I and they're putting up their music this way and I
could all of a sudden be a part of their circle and because they
have a podcast where they just come on as their regular selves
however they are you know and they interact with their
people like I know there are people out there
that have like big giant chat rooms and all this stuff and I can't handle
that's crazy like you know it's like but whereas
this is like intimate like you can actually you're actually
a person you're not just another million comments on the
youtube that the artist is never going to really give a crap about
because they won't look at it and they won't respond to it and maybe they
will respond to it once in a while but even so there's
no like you still don't feel like a person to me it's not
it just doesn't feel real whereas this podcasting 2.0
and value for value music it is a relationship
and it is something that you can be a part of for real
with a musician or podcasters or whatever the heck the art is and you can become
you know yes yeah I don't know I don't know what to call it you're just with
them in spirit and soul and part of what's go what they're doing what you're
doing there's this connection this human connection in this digital age,
because that's how we all connect now, because I can't seem to find the real
people at work, outside in my neighborhood.
Nobody seems to care. Where does everyone care? Well, here we are at the roundtable. We care.
Welcome to the roundtable. Anyone welcome. Building those relationships still
is just doing it in a different medium.
It's still building those up. Like Blueberry says, the real people are in the chat room.
And yeah, that's awesome. And maybe it's our fault that we're not advertising better,
but uh it's a handful of you guys and I
love every single one of you that are in the chat room right now but it's
just it's not large and that's our fault well okay so even even I uh yeah huge
sorry go ahead jimmy I've been wanting to bring up the chat room I've been trying
to get in on the chat room here.
So I'm looking at names on there that are familiar like Salty Crayon and Ubery and,
Gal, who I have no idea who that is, but I think we might be friends or something.
My favorite, I've lost it now. Where did it go?
My favorite, where did it go? There was,
captain sweatpants that's my
favorite that's me is
it yeah it's for the baby it's okay well
I like you better when I can't see you see I
told you I'd get you uh okay so
look what we have here is
we have a troll room going on with a bunch
of other people so I want to mention uberi
because I've been paying
a lot of attention to what he's doing and um
I've never really talked to the fella too much but
he's busy and that
brother is bringing value to
this place and he's doing some really cool
shit with the live music stuff and
um I'm like I'm.
Working on some things behind the scenes here like I'm
in the process of putting a band together and we're going
to start rehearsals and I'm setting up this room to
be a live performance facility with multiple
cameras and whatnot and and audio feeds
and I'm working on that and I'm
just so glad like there's people like blueberry out
there who are really working hard to
figure out how to make this stuff work and so
when I figure out what I'm doing they they're
like out there blazing the trails so
I personally right now
would like to thank blueberry for all
of his efforts and whatnot because you know honestly
like I don't think people recognize just how
much he's contributing here that's my two cents worth oh yeah the work he does
on the skirmishes let alone all the artists he helps uh you know self-host basically
is uh definitely um off the charts off the v4v charts.
Um, yeah. All right.
Well, that was cool. Yeah. Thank you. Um, it's called feedback.
I'm giving some feedback here right now regarding blueberry.
That mother has been working his ass off doing all kinds of words.
I'm sorry. I'm fighting words. I apologize. That person has been working his
butt off, just doing a great job, uh, putting together these value for value
skirmishes and all this stuff. And he's been a true value for value advocate
from the very beginning.
With Behind the Schemes and everything that he does, that guy deserves a lot of accolades.
I mean, for real. Like, he really, truly does.
I agree. I concur. And I got the $100, too.
So, it's a joke. Jeez, people.
Take it and relax, will you?
So, what is there, like, let me see.
There's 900 people in the troll room right now. 900.
900 people in the troll room, which is, you know, below average,
because normally we have about 2200.
Well, what is the average? Is it Thursday or Sunday? Sorry, I'm on an off day.
We're on an off day. We're not on Thursday or Sunday.
Yeah. Last time we did the podcast. I'd like to thank all of the millions of listeners and, um,
Hey, so I, it's the V for the round table.
So, you know.
Anything else you had, you wanted to, any of y'all were thinking like,
I want to talk about, I want to, I want to say this or that.
Is there any last, you know, thoughts? Yeah, I do.
I was under the impression that we were going to do a topic per person.
And then we were going to chat about that for 15 minutes or so.
And then I'll riff upon it for a while.
Well, let's do that. Okay. Let's do that. Hour and a half in. I'm here.
I'm ready. uh so I posed a question
to my audience my lightning thrashes audience that um
what do you want me to talk about and I
got a Boostagram gram in which I don't I unfortunately I don't
have in front of me I wish I did um so I can give credit where
credit is due but um one guy asked me
he's like he he wanted to know how he can how
he can get into the value verse into the into the the
world of v4v as a um podcaster
or musician he didn't specify um on the cheap like how can I do this without
spending a ton of money and to be honest it's actually really really easy like
if you're a musician it's super easy oh yeah all you got to do it's ridiculously easy,
yeah you just need a colomone in your life.
Or a wavelength or a wavelength so I
was getting I'm getting at that so check it out so all you need
is an rss feed a wallet and a host now I've posted tutorials up on v4vmusic.com
it's v the number four v music.com that talks about this then those tutorials
do need to be updated because they were written over a year ago but some things
have changed but in mostly things are the same but,
The cheapest and easiest way to do it, if you're a musician,
for real, is get yourself a wallet.
Go to Fountain.com, get yourself a wallet. And then contact Booberry at ThunderRoad.media.
He'll handle it all for you. All you got to do is give him some information,
and he'll do all the heavy work. And he only takes a 3% split.
1% goes to the music side project, 1% goes to the boo spot, and 1% goes to him.
He doesn't take any—he's doing it for free. His hosting costs more than that.
He will be your Colamona.
He will be your Colomona. Sorry. He won't hold your hand in the entire podcast all along the way.
Well, there's another thing you could do. You could go to rssblue.com and give
them a few bucks, like five bucks or something like that. No, no, no. We could do that.
No, we're doing this on the cheap. Right?
Five bucks is cheap. RSS Blue is not on the cheap, and it's not five bucks.
It's five bucks for three songs. If I remember correctly, I'm probably getting this wrong.
And then for every other song that you add, you've got to pay more money. No.
Well, no, it's based on the length of the file. Yeah, that too. Yeah.
I don't have any problem with RSS Blue.
I don't either. I've got no problem with it. I don't either.
If you've got money, RSS Blue is great.
But what we're talking about is on the cheap. Yeah, but $5, $10,
we're not talking about hundreds of dollars.
RSS Blue is an outfit. You're not talking about that. But the listener,
the person who asked me this question wants to do it on the cheap.
So I'm giving them the cheap option. Buyboxescheap.net.
RSS Blue is cheap.
It's not cheaper than free. It's not cheaper than free. Then the other option is Wavlake. Correct.
Wavlake will take 10% of your cut, which is still not much, to be honest.
I mean, it's actually not a
bad deal compared to the... There's plenty of ways to do it on the cheap.
No shit Jimmy the easiest part of this whole thing,
I didn't hear what you said because I was talking. Yes, be quiet for a minute.
Let me talk about my subject, then you can interject afterwards.
Thank you. Yes, sir. I love you, Jimmy. Just calm down for a minute.
Wavlake. No, you don't. You hate me, but you work with me anyway.
Wavlake is the next deepest option, right? They're going to take 10% of your cut, whatever.
Self-hosting, you can do that using Sovereign Feeds.
Steven Bell has set it up so that you can easily create your feed.
And he's also set up a system where you can host your files using bunny.net.
And you can do that for as little as a dollar a month.
Much cheaper than RSS Blue, like six times cheaper.
You can do that for a buck a month. And all you got to do is go to sovereignfeeds.com
and fill out a form and upload your MP3 file. It doesn't get any easier than that.
And then the third thing after that, and I guess RSS Blue would probably come
in here, which you can do.
And they have weird pricing structure, which I got into a big fight with Dovidas
over a year and a half ago that I don't ever want to come back to again,
because I do love and respect that man. I think he's awesome.
I really, truly do. But after RSSBlue.com, then the easiest thing,
the cheapest thing you can do at that point is get yourself a server,
like something on DigitalOcean or Linode or whatever.
The downside to that is that you got to be your own systems admin.
And the upside is you can get all kinds of stuff. You get a website,
you can get a streaming service.
Everything that JimmyV4V.com is set up on is on a DigitalOcean server.
Everything that I do is on DigitalOcean server. I host probably 10 different
domains on one server that cost me like nothing.
I mean, 15 bucks a month, you know, it didn't cost me nothing.
Yeah. Well, and then you can do what Randy does, which is a different set of
type of hosting, but you also need to have some skills and that's it.
And that's pretty much it. But the important thing is all my media,
all my images, it's all hosted on bunny on CDN.
Okay. My websites are all just
put into GitHub and posted with Cloudflare pages. It doesn't cost a thing.
See, that's cool. That's an option I haven't ever really explored yet,
but there are cheap ways to do this so you don't
have to break the bank to get into v4v but the most important
thing the most important thing is to close the loop look
at what tj has done with into the doorful verse he has
been he has created a loop that has been able to
communicate back with the listeners most musicians don't know how to do that
and I don't know I don't know how you close the loop or how you as a musician
will close that loop but having a podcast like the doorfuls have is a great way to do it.
Social media, but you need to thank people. When they send you a Boostagram
in, you need to thank them individually for that Boostagram.
We learn that from No Agenda. That's why we do it.
Like we didn't thank Salty for the one that came in a little bit ago?
Oh, I know, right? Did we get a Boostagram? Yes, we did.
And speaking of thanking people, we got 5,000 Satoshis from the one and only
Salty Cran, the host of the Upbeats Value for Value music show.
And he writes in, he writes in the boys are back in town and cooking up some conversation.
Sorry that's me thank you salty I appreciate it man,
okay that was my round that's pretty cool talk amongst yourselves okay no I
want randy did you have any thoughts that you didn't really get to get out that
you're like I really wanted to,
you know think think or talk on this thing back back to a little bit of what
we said a little bit ago about you know the connection we can make um I've been
able through podcasting,
um through that and even you know not just value for value but just through
podcasting in general to make connections with people that I probably never would have made.
Yeah, agreed. For example, I exchange emails with the podfather.
I exchange emails with the podfather.
Yeah, that's cool. You know, and I've gotten to be really good friends over
text messages with someone that everybody hears about all the time on Adam's
podcast with his wife, Sir Brian with an I.
Brian's a nice guy. He's pretty cool. Texts with him all the time.
The cause of podcasting.
Dave Jackson runs the school of podcasting. You want to learn how to podcast
because you have no clue? You go to Dave Jackson.
Dave Jackson and I are friends on social media. I talk to him all the time.
You know, I've been able to make these connections with people because of the medium we have.
Stuff people that I wouldn't have been able to talk to before,
would not have had connections with before.
I'm so much more grateful for that than I am for any value financially someone
could send me because the value of that is so much stronger. Absolutely.
I agree with that. Like you three guys are a good example of that.
Shad Pharaoh is another example.
Salty Cran. Like these people, none of you guys that have been in my life if
it wasn't for value for value, because I'm busy on my homestead trying to,
you know, dig a hole or, you know what I mean? Like build a compost pile.
Like I, you guys are my social outlet, which is cool and kind of sad.
Thanks, I guess.
Come on come on I mean you and I exchange messages at least
because we've been able to make a connection through what we do here yeah what
we're doing in the medium and it's cool and it's awesome I
love it yep like if if yes
you would reach out hey randy something's going
on I need some help if I could get there and help you I'd
get there and help you I did I needed your buds and you sent them to me thank
you yeah that did happen I did I did send you some earbuds for amazon because
salty salty sent me the mouse that I'm using it's awesome did you guys see we
got a Boostagram in from the one the only queen mother she says enjoying listening to you guys,
What? He says. What? What?
I know who that is. You can't fool me. I know who that is.
Thank you. She's the mother of the door of your value verse. Really?
Yeah. She's a woman must be tired with all you guys. Yeah.
She's the, yes, she's the queen mother.
To quote a very, very wise man. There's no shortage of doorfuls.
Yes. No shortage of doorfuls.
Yeah. Yeah, I heard that somewhere. I read that somewhere.
Well, so I have one question I'd love for the people listening.
Well, sorry, Jimmy. We got a delay, so that's why I start talking over you. I really apologize.
It's not a bad delay, but it's enough that I start talking, and then you start
talking, and it's too late.
Go ahead, man. Yeah, I know.
Well, okay. Um, I already forgot what I was going to say.
Um, Booberry asked if more people is better and that's a valid question.
Um, however, the, uh, it depends on what your motivation is.
I would say like, I think
that it would be in our best interest
to create a scenario where where at
least lots of the artists the really
good artists could earn some actual revenue
from their their art like there's some really good skilled talented experienced
people here and they got something to deliver and it would be nice like it was
earlier mentioned about the you know Susan Santos,
and she made more here than on Spotify.
And that's exactly my same experience.
Like, my streaming audio earnings over the last five years are negative $100.
And I'm plus $300 or $400 in the V4V world.
So I can't exactly tell you where that all came from because I did other stuff,
but put songs out and podcasts and stuff.
And so it's a positive revenue stream, but I'm not going to pretend that it
has made any financial difference in my life.
And, um, I doubt that there's any more than one or two people have seen this.
That kind of money if anybody like in the
fortune magazine article I believe ainsley
costella was quoted at earnings of
thirteen thousand dollars and over
the course of a year thirteen thousand dollars
compared to what I saw with my own eyes
those that family sunk way more
than that into what they were doing and so
13 000 she's the
like she's the all-time number one artist that's
the most anybody earned nobody even came
in at half of that and a handful
of people earned a couple thousand bucks and a
few more people earned a few hundred bucks and it
more people listening would mean more
earnings for the people it mean more
potential possibilities of of earning
but ultimately it's still based on the
value for value model going to be up to the the
relationship the artist makes and the connection the artist makes with the people
because you don't have some label or someone saying okay you have a you know
this many streams so you get this much it's literally all dependent on the people
and so that's why it's don't think about oh I deserve to make a living, it's,
oh, I'm a real person and I'm going to treat my producers or my listeners,
whatever you want to call them,
like real people too, because they deserve that.
And I think that's where you're going to create it. I've never had an expectation
myself of earning a living at this, and I still don't.
And that's actually, that's kind of a misrepresentation of what I said,
Because I'm talking about an actual financial reward for the artist.
I'm not like, this isn't a personal issue. This is an artist issue. I gotcha.
You you are the you guys the
doorfuls there you put out a ton of music
and a lot of it's really really good
and of high value and like you
didn't none of you got to
buy a new house because of it and I'm
not saying you should but it's the
question was is more people better
and if you can the more you can
reward the artist the better the you
know like you can reward the artist that means you're going to get more
better artists yeah and and the third if the
artist is and the people will know it'll it'll just the uh
interaction will continue if the artist gets more support.
And because they're active and people are loving this person
or artist or whatever I mean they're just going
to keep the support will keep growing I mean that's that's the idea anyways
I'm not saying that's exactly how it's happening but it seems to
be actually happening very slow very very slowly
in the value verse um but not
in any kind of scale like you said you know we're not buying a house heck we're
not buying a car heck we're not even buying you know like groceries
yeah we're not so but again
it's not like you know we're not looking for the money here
but I guess if you're the artist was authentic and we had
the people like because you're talking about uh blueberry's question with
the people right um like is more better um
well it could be better in the sense of
you're giving that artist more uh time
to uh create something that apparently is uh very valuable because if if hypothetically
that artist kept getting more people that really kept following them well then
it must be worth something you know like I don't but anyways speaking personally
as a performing recording artist.
I can unequivocally state that performing for a full room, a room full of people,
no matter how big that room is, if it's full of people and they're into it,
it's way better than performing for an empty room, no matter how small it is.
So I think that same principle applies from the artistic perspective.
I think the same principle applies to the V4V world, that the larger the audience is,
the more interesting and engaging the performance the performers will be.
All artists want to be in the full rooms. So...
I don't know. I think more is probably better, but not just randomly more.
I think we need more of the people who love to discover new music.
Like we're not going to get the people who want to hear Stairway to Avenue.
Hey, we need a clone Chad Pharaoh. We just need a thousand Chad Pharaohs. Yeah.
Well, that's all we need. I already put out a, I already put out a large reward
for anyone that could provide me with more chads. That's right.
The reward is out there. Just take it people.
And it's, it's not even, it's not even that it's about, you know,
like we, we keep talking about for the artists as in the musicians,
it's the same way for anybody who's podcasting.
It's the exact same concept, getting that audience, getting those people that
love what you're doing and supporting you and showing you that love and the
value they return to you. It's the same concept.
Yeah, I agree. You got to deliver. You have to deliver the initial V in the equation.
If V for V, the initial V must be significant. It comes from you. Agreed.
That's kind of like unwritten. That's a law of physics, isn't it? Yeah, I agree.
So Salty brings up a question in the chat room, and he says,
how do you keep people, or he asks, how do you keep people in V4V that go to
the live shows that seem to disappear within a week or two?
And I think that maybe my response to this is, so these are just regular average
everyday folk that happen to pop into Boostagram Ball Live and get excited.
And then a couple of weeks later, they're just distracted.
There's a thing. They're wandering around looking for where to go maybe. Yeah.
Well, there's a thing a guy named Dan Kennedy, who was a marketer, brought up.
He said, you got to keep hitting people with the message.
You got to keep hitting them with the message because people get distracted.
A lot of people don't donate because they don't get asked.
They get distracted with life. They forget about you. You have to be out there advertising to them.
And when we have episodes or shows like the Boostagram Ball or even the Satellite
Scrimmages, for that example, or for that matter,
we're not collecting names and numbers and addresses that we can build a mailing
list to then send off a newsletter every Wednesday and Saturday, like John does.
I mean, that's what we need to be doing. We need to be contacting these people
on a regular basis and touching their lives on a regular basis because they
will forget about us because they have life that they have to deal with.
It's just is what it is. And that's the only way that I know how to keep them from disappearing.
Well, you have to provide somewhere to go.
And I think it works better if what you're providing has a broad base of...
This is running with scissors in its truest sense.
Like we're trying to reconstruct something that's already built and been working
for decades and decades and decades.
And it's all built on, on way more than it seems. There's way more going on
here than it looks on the surface.
And we're trying to slice off a little piece of the internet or, uh,
Like, I don't see this as being a marketplace or whatever where you have,
you know, a billion people.
I'm thinking that out there in the world on the internet,
there are at least a few hundred thousand people who would love to have a place
where they could just discover brand new music that they've never heard before
and fall in love with a whole bunch of new songs and new artists.
And like, that's what we're working on and we were not delivering it yet.
So we're not trying to promote it, but that's, I don't think things really work
well until Joe and Susie Average and drop into a space where they can be,
but you have to, it's Joe and Susie.
It's not Joe and Susie Average. It's a very small demographic of Joe and Susie Average.
Most people love music, but most people love their old favorite songs.
So those aren't the people like we don't have Stairway to Heaven as a part of this system.
So we have to create brand new stairways to Heaven.
We have to create new favorite songs. And to do that, we first have to attract
those people who are already passionate about discovering new music.
And that's going to be my focus.
Yeah but then we also got to we also got to remind them on a regular basis to be there for us,
absolutely and you know what I always think about it well if
it's just me but I always kind of feel bad or something whenever
I kind of refer to trying to get more people and being then just
like start generalizing it like normies and all this because
I remember learning about no agenda
learn learning this and learning it's like I was just I was a
nobody but I'm not I was tj and then I could learn to interact and they and
they just started making sense on how to do that whether once Boostagrams came
along or just the troll room or you know all the uh what did they have at the
time um no agenda social or whatever it is now no authority social and you know
you start interact it's like,
They started and people would treat you not like a rando, but like,
hey, you know, like if you got involved, you can be a part of the family.
Like we already said in the chat a while ago, like the light is on, doors open.
Like we're not just looking for rando Joe and Sue, like make sure it's easy
so we can just get a bunch of randos to just consume my stuff.
It's like, no, like we want to be part of the family if you want.
Here's some light ways. This family is very welcoming.
Like oh yeah uh I've been doing this for about a year
and a half now and I have I feel
that I've been welcomed welcomed into the fold like you
know hanging out with all the people in the chat rooms and whatnot and the bowl
after bowl crowd and you know sir spencer dane delorean and all that which happens
to be on right now bowls with buds is happening right now so you're missing
the you're missing bowls with buds if you're listening to us right now but um
they might not start on that They might not have started yet.
We just lost our last three listeners.
We'd go, Sir Libre. I know, right? But it's very welcoming. It's a big tent, you know?
Yeah, if you step across some boundaries, they will hit you pretty hard.
You know, it happens. If you say some dumb shit, then you're going to get the hammer.
It's a metaphorical hammer, but they don't suffer too many fools, but it's awesome.
It's a brotherhood and a sisterhood or whatever you want to call it. It's a camaraderie.
I love it. Yeah, and so we're just a bunch of dudes who love Value for Value
music. We see all this potential.
We see all these great things happening, whether it's happening slowly or whether
we went backwards a step or two, but now we're trying to get those steps back
and we just wanted to get together and talk about it.
And I think we're about at the end here, fellas, if, if you guys are feeling
that and thank anyone for listening. I personally, again, enjoy talking about
this stuff with people and would love to do this a little bit more regularly than once a year.
Yeah. Even again, even if it's just for us, cause we like to talk about all
the little issues we're trying to figure out and, and whatever.
I just feel honored that I'm the second person who's guested on this after the pod father.
After the pod father. Yep. Absolutely. Hey, he didn't know it was our first
episode. Yeah. We got your money. Don't worry.
I wanted to say something about that.
Randy, Randy has been itching. What do you call it?
Chomping at the bit or champing at the bit where he wanted to have a guest on
his podcast and talk about these very same issues.
And he reached out to me. He reached out to a few others. This would be a whole new show.
Well, yeah, I know. I know. I know. But he wanted to discuss these types of things.
And I was like, well, why don't we resurrect the value for value roundtable?
Because we need to do that anyways. It's been a year.
And just have you on as a guest so that you can talk with us and so forth.
So that doesn't mean that your show is not going to be better because it probably will.
And you should plug that at some point if you're going to do it.
Are you going to do a show, something similar?
I'm still running through stuff. I've got to, you know, Chad Farrow was ready
to jump up and be in it. So I got to talk to Chad a little bit and see if he's still interested.
Well, I never did hear from Salty. Salty Crayon, you need to respond to things.
Salty ghosted you. He's responding. He did. I sent that message and got ghosted. He's the best.
Salty Crayon is the best. I'm not saying anything bad about him,
but then he ghosted me when I sent a message on Telegram.
Salty's afraid that he's going to cut everybody out.
Sometimes I have to mute all telegrams. Salty rocks. Sometimes I have to mute
all telegrams, so I apologize.
He just admitted he missed it in the chat room. We forgive you. It's all good.
So, Randy, how can we reach you if you need to? What's the best way that we
can consume your materials?
The Mountain Music Happy Hour or M2H2, whichever name you prefer.
You can find it m2h2music.com. or I now have mountainmusichappyhour.com that
forwards to the other site.
Well, I also noticed... Sorry. Sorry to interrupt you, but I also noticed that
your personal website has a ton of really good information on it.
Was it where you want to say that? A YouTube show without an RSS feed is not a podcast. Just saying.
There's a bunch of really good information that you have up there.
You kind of are doing what I was doing with v4vmusic.com. And so could you tell
the audience a little bit about that? Because that's interesting to me.
What I've done is, you know, because my job is in IT. I work for a school system and I work in IT.
So, and before that, I was a teacher. I was in the classroom and I taught kids.
I taught history and I love teaching.
I love being able to take content and putting it in a way that people can understand it and use it.
So what I started doing is taking these things and posting them on my personal
site at randallblack.com.
Greatest website in the world. You should go visit it right now.
Randall black.com because it's Randall black.com R a N D a L L Randall black.com
because some guy in Las Vegas has Randy black.com and he's been sitting on it
for 15 years and he won't give it to me. Um,
But what I've started doing, like I've started taking things that I'm doing
in my own work and what I'm doing in my own life and what I'm doing with podcasting
and things and writing that content up.
So, you know, I've got an article that why a YouTube show that's not distributed via RSS is not a podcast.
I've got an article about setting up a Cloudflare tunnel to make Owncast,
which is a self-hosted live stream server, make it available through your personal
firewall and everything with the Cloudflare tunnel.
I've got on there how to use Sovereign Feeds and the Split Kit and Bunny.net
to host your own podcast and have full control of it.
It's just stuff that I'm writing because I want to get this information out there for people.
And some of it is cross-posted to another domain I have.
I call my home studio Johns Creek Studios because I live on Johns Creek in the
little town of Milton, West Virginia.
And there's stuff posted there that's the same. And there's a lot of podcasting
stuff that's posted over there too.
But, you know, the music show, m2h2music.com, if you're interested in the content
I'm building related to the Bible and the study I'm doing and then sharing that out.
Like I'm just like this week, I will be finishing episode 37 and that will be
the last of the 37 miracles of Jesus.
And that's Bible Bytes at Bible-BytesBY. T E S.com.
Um, those are my two active podcasts. The ones I work on and the ones I love.
Um, don't get me wrong. The music show is awesome. I love doing it,
but Bible bites is my passion.
That's the one I want to be my legacy.
Nice. Well, I, I enjoy listening to them. I'm about six episodes behind,
so I got to catch up, but, um, I do listen to them and I do enjoy them.
You're probably not as far behind as my wife is.
None of my family listens to any of my shows. I'm trying to get her to podcast.
I have a cover art. I have a title.
She won't do it. And I keep pushing. I keep telling people, I've got this great
idea for a podcast and Beth won't do it.
So we'll see how it goes.
Same thing with my son. I've been trying to get my son to do stuff on a previous
show I did previously. He was on two different times talking about stuff for
school because it was an education podcast.
Um, but like I said, this, for me, this is my hobby.
This is me doing something that I love, something I enjoy, and I'm hoping people
get value out of it. It's not about me making money.
It's not about me earning something from it. It's about giving people something
that they find valuable. A servant. That's awesome.
TJ. So, um, speaking of family and all that stuff, you are very lucky to have
your family or fortunate.
I don't like using the word luck because it seems weird, but you're
very fortunate to have your your family who has always been
behind you or appears to be at least uh you
know your mom and your dad were both listening to us in the end and
uh were participants in the chat room um last
week you did a show with jimmy v and afterwards
you know you and your son practiced music together and it was so awesome he
is getting so good on the guitar I'm incredibly jealous because I've been playing
guitar since I was 15 I'm 50 now and I'm not nearly as good as he is and that
just makes me jealous, but, you know, whatever.
I'm super proud of him. I imagine you are as well.
Where can people find out more information about you, Sir TJ the Wrathful?
Absolutely. I mentioned it earlier. The best place is doorfulverse.com.
Our last name's very strange. You know, it actually means small village in German. Did you know that?
Anyways. Oh, I thought it meant small door.
So, doorful is D-O-E-R-F as in Frank. E-L, doorfell. Doorfellverse.com.
And you can get in touch with me, tj at doorfulverse.com. That's my email.
Or I'm in the telegrams. everywhere I'm happy to help
with what I can I'm not an expert but I like
uh sharing what I do know and giving you
know guidance when I can and yeah that's
that awesome and jimmy
v the canadian extraordinary musician the
old man that yells at clouds everybody loves and
uh you have been you have
been doing a lot of music you put out a lot of music into
the value verse and I know from talking with you that you have a lot more music
that you can put out into the value verse you're just waiting for the right
moment and uh coming soon we have uh jimmy what we call it groove hq is that
the name of it groove hq live from groove hq where you're going to be able to participate,
you're going to be able to participate in a lot of these value for value
um live music shows hopefully we can get you on one of the satellite skirmishes
we should talk to Booberry about that sometime maybe in the fall or the winter
uh all depends on whether you can get your act together between now and then
but um I would like if you could share with the audience what are the best ways
for people to find information about Jimmy V.
Google Jimmy V I do a lot of it I do a lot of stuff like I do a ton of like I'm a,
I'm the most successful unknown social media influencer of all time.
I have thousands of subscribers on YouTube and a couple thousand on TikTok.
Old Canadian trucker. And I get hundreds of views on every one of my TikToks.
Easy. Same with YouTube. Like, I get easy a few hundred views.
Nobody like I don't I'm
all over the place old canadian trucker
jimmy v tv all that traditional bullshit and then of course there's uh a radio
v the podcast and there's outside in the podcast and there's this podcast and
do you have a website I'm always shooting my mouth off um,
yeah I don't want to talk about it right now yeah do though but.
But we'll deal with talk about that some other time when it it doesn't it's
not the website I want at the moment so understandable it will be,
it will be and I already have a jingle for it but listen I wanted there's a
couple things I needed to say so So I invited,
I've been communicating with a couple of appass prominent TikTokers and invited
them to tune into this podcast.
I doubt very much that if they did, they are still here.
But if they are, they know exactly who I'm talking to because I sent them messages
with links and now they're listening.
So this is the real underbelly of podcasting here, the people who are really
digging in in the dirt to make this stuff work.
And it works pretty good.
And go podcasting!
Yeah.
That's Sir Libre.
Sir Libre do the we haven't talked much about your lightning thrashes and your
contributions to this and your like,
lightningthrashes.com is that right yes so I host the world's only value for
value metal music podcast it's by definition the very best one that has ever
been done because it's the only one that has ever been done and so you should
check it out it's the best podcast in the universe,
as far as value for value music goes um and I also have v4vmusic.com.
Randy thinks that's him. No, for metal.
For metal. I have the best metal music podcast. Randy doesn't have the best
metal music podcast. I have the best one from West Virginia.
Yes, you do. Absolutely. You have the hands down best podcast from West Virginia
as far as music is concerned, as well as Bible stuff. Yeah.
But I also do v4vmusic.com, which has some articles on there that needs to be
revamped. I have done some tutorials on the split kit as well as music side
project that are on my odyssey channel.
You can search for lightning thrashes there, but they're old.
I need to revamp everything. I should probably get rid of Randy to be honest.
And we should probably collaborate on some really amazing tutorials.
Cause there are a lot of things need to be done. I have been a,
a proponent from this, from the beginning.
Once I heard Adam Curry do his Boostagram Ball, I'm like, I can do that.
And so here I am. That's how I got into music. Right.
77 or 78 episodes into it over a year.
And I've been doing it and I haven't missed a show yet. And I'm also doing a
live episodes of lightning thrashes at 7 PM central time.
Uh, you can find that at lit.lightningthrashes.com. That's lit.lightningthrashes.com.
And that's pretty much Sir Libre in a nutshell.
That's when you remember. Right.
Okay. Gentlemen. so this was uh while here I'll just shut up and I'll do it all right,
hey see I got to yell at you once too
that's good um hey ladies and
gentlemen boys and girls thank you very very much
for joining us for this episode of v4v
roundtable podcast we of
course have been uh um sir tj
the wrathful and sir lee bray and randall
black and um I probably should
have used more words there like described
who these people are but if you don't already know
then no I can't help you so
thank you very much for joining us on this show
and please uh tune in next week or next time or well hopefully it won't be next
year but tune in next week for the b4v roundtable podcast thank you very much
you're on your own good night and remember to like and subscribe.